There’s something amazing about huge, unwieldy movie franchises. Series that go north of five or six installments have staying power, even if they abandon all pretense of having “canon,” story continuity, or logic. Each has a certain something that helps it stand out and sustain so many films over so many years.

In the spirit of the season, we’re going back and taking a look at the ridiculously strong Halloween franchise that survived 11 movies, 40 years, 5 reboots/separate timelines, and more “dead” Michael Myerseses than you can count.

I’m joined by Shiri Sondheimer to watch all 11 films in the franchise. Neither of us has seen them before, and we watch together and comment on the film in a private Slack channel.

For the curious, our reactions to the first eight installments in the franchise are here. What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our conversation while watching Rob Zombie’s remake of Halloween from 2007.

After the atrocity that was Halloween: Resurrection, the franchise lay dormant for five years. It wasn’t until Rob Zombie came along and rebooted the series with a “remake” of the original (plus some elements from Halloween II) that it was revived.

But listen, here’s a spoiler warning: The Halloween franchise is not known for its engaging storytelling or high-quality films. And in a series with some truly awful installments, this one is the absolute gutter. It has zero redeeming qualities. It’s trash in every possible way and has no concept of its own franchise. This one was rough to sit through.

Hang tight as we dive in…

Jamie: I’m not looking forward to this one.

Shiri: Oh man. An epigraph.

Jamie: Oh man, a LOOMIS epigraph!

Shiri: It’s already taking itself too seriously.

Jamie: FAR too seriously

Shiri: Minus points for no pumpkin. Gah! WHY WITH THE CLOWNS? If she eats that rat, I’m out.

Jamie: Is that the same mask from Resurrection, though? Wow. I already hate this movie.

Shiri: A-yup. I hope they all die. Extra splooshy.

Jamie: Is this supposed to be in the 60s? Because I feel like the fuckity fuck language they’re using is anachronistic.

Shiri: Okay, see . . . It makes sense to me that he would slaughter all of these people. Which like, totally kills the whole story.

Jamie: So, I know how we kind of made fun of the fact that Michael had no backstory. He just killed for no reason. But do we REALLY need this backstory?

Shiri: I am now 100% sure I preferred that. It must be the 70s because he’s wearing a KISS shirt.

Jamie: Yeah, I feel like the slang they’re using is firmly 2007.

Shiri: Ugh, can we get with the killing already. Is that groovy Loomis? It’s groovy Loomis.

Jamie: So . . . Loomis was called in pre-killing now? The principal just . . . kept a dead cat in his desk?

Shiri: WE WOULD LIKE YOU ALL TO KNOW THAT THIS CHILD HAS THE HALLMARKS OF A PSYCHOPATH.

Jamie: Do we really NEED to know why Michael Myers became Michael Myers? Because I’m not so sure we do. A few lines of dialogue could’ve covered this.

Shiri: Old, trusty expositionary voiceover. Like, how could he NOT be deranged? Establishing shot of a medical file. Check.

Jamie: 10 minutes of this movie and we’ve already gotten more expletives than all 8 previous movies. And that’s INCLUDING Resurrection and all of Busta Rhymes’s Chicken Fried Mothafuckah lines.

Shiri: Those had the additional caché of being funny. The murdering just isn’t the same without the tits.

Jamie: So, the “appeal” of the originals is that Michael just snapped when he was 6 and no one knew why. Now he’s a sadistic serial killer at 11. And it’s TOTALLY OBVIOUS why.

Shiri: That’s so much scarier than abusive stepfather and awful sister. That dude did NOT get hit with a tree branch 15 times.

Jamie: So, it’s like, he was sitting in the principal’s office with Loomis saying he might be a psycho. And then he thought, “Oh, they want me to be a psycho? I’ll go be a psycho.” An went straightaway and killed a dude.

Shiri: He killed a dog and a cat and she’s letting him go to a party?

Jamie: Mom of the Year.

Shiri: Jamie, I think I’m bored.

Jamie: Whu? Oh, sorry. I was checking email.

Shiri: Are we going to get a stripper mom-murder montage? Sorry. “Exotic dancer.”

Jamie: OMG. The striptease montage with “Love Hurts” playing and cut together with sad Michael sitting on the curb is SO unintentionally hilarious.

Shiri: Okay, the “Learn from your parents mistakes. Use birth control” sticker is funny.

Jamie: Nips. Her minutes are numbered.

Shiri: “My daddy’s in heaven?” Her pillow talk is even worse than Laurie’s in H20.

Jamie: Ew. Candy corn. So far, that’s the grossest thing in the movie.

Shiri: Hey! No harshing the candy corn.

Jamie: I take it back. Circus peanuts.

Shiri: Now the circus peanuts . . . those are gross. I’m glad we didn’t get the director’s cut.

Jamie: That probably had Necco Wafers.

Shiri: Buttered popcorn jelly beans. Okay, if disgusting stepdad could sleep through being duct taped, then he didn’t need to be be duct taped. Did no one learn from the originals? No candles, no lit jack-o-lanterns in the house. “Doctor, this man is full of corn syrup.”

Jamie: Well, I’ll give him this: the kid has Michael’s murder stare down pat.

Shiri: Cause of death: blood replaced by red paint replaced by corn syrup. OH MY GOD. This murdering is taking FOREVER. Make with the slashy slash already.

Jamie: Wait. Why did Judith put her shirt back on? Isn’t she going to brush her hair naked while looking into the mirror?

Shiri: SANDWICH CALLBACK! WHICH WAS ALSO IN THE NEW ONE.

Jamie: I know. I loved it. Red housecoat made a comeback.

Shiri: That kid is super quiet. I know NO 10-year-old boys who are that quiet.

Jamie: Maybe they’re not psychopaths?

Shiri: He’d be talking about Minecraft or like, narrating exactly why he made every decision he made for the last six days.

Jamie: Oh, should I be counting deaths in this one?

Shiri: 3.

Jamie: Death 1 was bully in the woods. Death 2 was terrible stepdad. Death 3 was shitty boyfriend.

Shiri: “Don’t Fear the Reaper” callback.

Jamie: It’s the end of October. Why is his sister not under sheets? I doubt that house has the heat crankin’.

Shiri: Resurrection doesn’t seem so bad anymore.

Jamie: OK, the Michael mask on a little kid is either the most terrifying or most hilarious thing ever.

Shiri: At least they phased out the eyebrows.

Jamie: No. You leave the baby alone.

Shiri: Pshew.

Jamie: Oh, the baby is the only one who “gets” him. So she lives.

Shiri: The baby is his humanity. And also, if he had killed that baby, I’d be 100% done.

Jamie: Who called the cops?

Shiri: Jesus, what did she think was going to happen?

Jamie: Oh, weird segue. Never mind.

Shiri: I CAN’T BELIEVE MY DAUGHTER IS DEAD! I ONLY LEFT HER WITH THE DISGUSTING BOYFRIEND. No. No freeze frame. This is already too long.

Jamie: We’re now a half hour into this movie. To get to the point the original did SO WELL in about 7 minutes.

Shiri: RHEE RHEE RHEE SPLOOSH. Done. Now Loomis has a groovy beret.

Jamie: I hope we get the “pure evil” speech from Malcolm McDowell.

Shiri: Isn’t the whole point that Michael didn’t say a WORD ever for the rest of his life? Why is this child talking? Can we please move on to 17 years later?

Jamie: It’s to show that he has no remorse or comprehension of what he did. Because that’s totally what we need to see.

Shiri: I remember that all I got were fucking disgusting circus peanuts.

Jamie: “Angelic young boy”? Loomis just lost all credibility.

Shiri: That kid does NOT look angelic. Is his mom . . . is she VISITING him?

Jamie: She’s trying to make amends. Before she heads to the club to whip her titties out.

Shiri: She has wine in that glass. HOLY SHIT. TREJO SIGHTING! This movie just got SO much better. I’ve reengaged.

Jamie: Danny!! I hope he lives. A pep talk from Danny Trejo is all I’ve ever wanted in life.

Shiri: I haven’t watched Machete in far too long.

Jamie: Yawn. Now we’re getting a lecture on the visible light spectrum.

Shiri: Do you think it’s significant that Michael and Loomis have the same haircut?

Jamie: Loomis’s hair is Loreal beautiful. Will we get adult Michael in the first HOUR of this fucking movie?

Shiri: Beatnick Loomis.

Jamie: You know what this movie needs more of? These awkward scenes of nothing but silence. Because this movie TOTALLY needs to be longer.

Shiri: Please cut that child’s hair.

Jamie: I wonder if the old Loomis ever gave Michael a hug.

Shiri: Old Loomis wasn’t beatnik Loomis. Beatnik Loomis hugs and goes outside.

Jamie: I am so fucking bored.

Shiri: “Let’s try to enjoy the day,” said no mother who’s child is in a psychiatric facility EVER. There is no baby, there is only Zu’ul.

Jamie: Nurse hats!

Shiri: That nurse is about to die. He’s going to eat her face. Guess what else they don’t do in psych facilities? Let the patients have metal utensils. You know why? This is why.

Jamie: Why is the mom still surprised her son is a wackjob?

Shiri: This is where hugs get you, Beatnik Loomis. Please tell me the next frame is going to say “17 years later.”

Jamie: God. Home movies.

Shiri: Really? NOW she’s losing her shit? He only killed ONE person this time, stripper mom. Are you fucking kidding me?

Jamie: This movie really could’ve used an editor to cut, like, ALL OF THIS SHIT out.

Shiri: Are you fucking. Kidding me?

Jamie: Stripper mom shoots herself and leaves the baby. Nice.

Shiri: This has gone from tragic to farcical. Well. Technically, it was never tragic.

Jamie: Hey look, Danny Trejo is still there 15 years later.

Shiri: Danny Trejo is getting too old for this shit.

Jamie: That security guard is totally going to die. Do not trash talk the 8-foot monster. You won’t win.

Shiri: The Sasquatch look is 10/10 worse than the afro. Like, is he going to manbun that shit when he puts the mask back on or what?

Jamie: THIS is the Malcolm McDowell we know.

Shiri: Beatnik Loomis has become Vulcan Loomis. That beard is mighty. He usually just goes with the chin strap

Jamie: Do you think he shaves the front of his chin? Or does it just grow that way?

Shiri: Hmmm. Interesting question. Far more interesting than this movie. I didn’t think it was possible for Loomis to be creepier than Pleasence was but I was so wrong.

Jamie: See? THIS Loomis wrote a book and went on the speaking circuit. Because OF COURSE he would. That’s totally what a real Loomis would do.

Shiri: Absolutely. Any reasonable medical professional would. “Fuck” is losing its meaning.

Jamie: Are there no cameras in this place?

Shiri: Ew. No. Bite him. Is Michael going to become defender of the downtrodden?

Jamie: I feel like Michael would be behind more than one keyed door. That any bumblefuck could open.

Shiri: Well, I had a patient who, when she was on the forensic ward, was basically on a leash, so . . .

Jamie: I feel like this rape scene is unnecessary.

Shiri: I 100% agree. This is not edgy. It’s gross. Rape is not a plot device.

Jamie: God, these guys are so stupid. They deserve all of this. But this is just sloppy, lazy writing.

Shiri: Yeah, I gotta say, watching a rapist get his skull cracked is satisfying. But this is like, shock-value shit, not horror-movie shit. I was actually having a conversation on Twitter today where people were talking about heroes and suffering. I pointed out if the hero suffers but learns from it and shows growth then it’s a story but if he just suffers it’s torture porn.

Jamie: This is why I hate torture porn movies. They’re not horror. They’re just gross.
Uh oh. Trejo’s speaking Spanish. That means trouble.

Shiri: Not DANNY!

Jamie: DANNY! Is there even a Laurie Strode in this movie?

Shiri: I . . . don’t even care?

Jamie: Well, we’re almost an hour in and we don’t have a protagonist. And Loomis doesn’t count. He’s not our protagonist.

Shiri: Is he SUPPOSED to be? I can’t even tell.

Jamie: You know how I can tell this isn’t a horror movie? I haven’t been remotely scared once.

Shiri: Dude, if we weren’t so close to done, I’d be like, “ugh no.” It’s maybe supposed to be a shock value gross-out movie, but I’m not engaged enough for either of those things?

Jamie: Apparently the second one is a total acid trip. Gross trucker in the nasty bathroom: Who still looks at booby magazines?

Shiri: What is it with this guy and bathroom murders? I feel like I’m supposed to recognize the trucker.

Jamie: I thought it was Laurence Fishburne at first. But it’s not. Damn, Joe Grisly’s got quite the grip! Aaaand there’s “Mr. Sandman.” Except it’s a slowed-down, sad version.

Shiri: We’re finally getting to Laurie an hour in?

Jamie: It’s the mom from ET!

Shiri: I already want Laurie to get stabbed in the face.

Jamie: Why was Laurie finger fucking a bagel?

Shiri: Because the guy who owns the hardware store is a pervert.

Jamie: Aw, Tommy! It’s little Paul Rudd!

Shiri: So we sat through an hour of boredom to basically get a shot-for-shot of the first movie? Y tho?

Jamie: I don’t remember Jamie Lee Curtis finger fucking a bagel.

Shiri: There were no bagels in Illinois in the actual 70s.

Jamie: I’m disappointed in the eyebrows of the Michael mask.

Shiri: “Laurie, that’s the old Myers place.” “The what? I don’t know what you’re talking about, Tommy.”

Jamie: This is EXACTLY the original movie at this point. Why was she delivering mail to an abandoned house?

Shiri: “This paper smells like girl.” Because someone was going to look at it later in the day. Can I say it?

Jamie: Say what?

Shiri: How did no one notice a dude in a mask hanging outside a school in 2007?

Jamie: Oh yeah. No way. It’s JAMIE!! The brunette – Annie. It’s Danielle Davis – Jamie Lloyd!

Shiri: ALL OF LOOMIS’S ACCENTS IN ONE ROOM.

Jamie: Wait. The hospital people haven’t even notified the authorities that a murderer is on the loose?

Shiri: I think Loomis has the same car he had in the first one.

Jamie: I hope this Laurie isn’t supposed to be our protagonist. Because I hate her.

Shiri: The cussing isn’t edgy. It’s boring. He’s. Eight. Feet. Tall.

Jamie: I think Jamie was a better actress when she was 9 in Halloween 4.

Shiri: I hate everyone in this movie. Except MAYBE the baby.

Jamie: The only one I liked was Danny Trejo.

Shiri: And Danny Trejo. I do like her double skull hoodie though.

Jamie: Michael hiding behind bushes in the original? Creepy and scary. Michael sauntering down the sidewalk across the street in this one? Yawn.

Shiri: Where did his hair go?

Jamie: I’ve literally checked how much time is left about 10 times so far. The cemetery guy looks like Paul Giamatti. What’s up with the “Trick or Treat” title across the screen? Are we in a different movie now?

Shiri: This is the third movie in this movie.

Jamie: It’s like the Inception of “horror” movies. Are they going to bone in the haunted house?

Shiri: Boning. Dead.

Jamie: Yup.

Shiri: I kind of want Busta Rhymes to jump out and tell “Trick or Treat Motherfucker!” Why are people still wearing 70s accessories? Dude is wearing 70s glasses and bell bottoms.

Jamie: It’s hipstery retro.

Shiri: At least they’re sticking with the 5-second rule.

Jamie: OK, the unsatisfying sex is at least acknowledged in this movie. She’s not pretending it was any good.

Shiri: Do they . . . do they seriously have a boom box?

Jamie: YES! Michael in the Bob sheet incoming!

Shiri: I did love ghost Bob. FINALLY. Staked to the wall. But only a 2 on the sploosh-o-meter.

Jamie: Always a classic.

Shiri: For a movie with a lot of blood, there’s been a distinct lack of sploosh. Well, at least her boobs are real.

Jamie: They won’t save her. We’ve established that.

Shiri: Is . . . is Michael just a pervert in this one? Did she not notice that this dude is significantly taller than her boyfriend? Like, a foot taller?

Jamie: Come on. He’s like three feet taller than everyone else. This girl’s boobs get a LOT of screen time.

Shiri: So did her Brazilian. POSSE UP! I feel like this is a much more realistic way for Loomis to have gotten a gun. From a redneck in camo without a background check.

Shiri: Oh, that was my first jump. The Strodes do not fit his MO. They are not horny teenagers. They are nice old marrieds.

Jamie: Michael doesn’t have an MO in this movie. He just kills without reason. Kind of ironic, that. Especially since we got a FUCKING HOUR of backstory about how he came to be.

Shiri: I mean, he didn’t have an MO as such in the other ones, but he didn’t kill nice old marrieds either.

Jamie: OK, fun fact? Danielle Davis is playing a high school teenager in this one. She was 30 when this was made.

Shiri: LOL. Is she going to take her shirt off in the kitchen?

Jamie: Maybe? I mean, she’s attractive, so I guess that’d be cool? But we also saw her as a 9-year-old. So it’s gross.

Shiri: She aged well.

Jamie: Very well. Good to see the Haddonfield PD is still inept and useless. And no one listens to Loomis, even though Michael has killed FAR more people than in the first one.

Shiri: They should have gone to the cookie boob store.

Jamie: It might still make an appearance. They should’ve brought Billy back to be her boyfriend in this one. Ben Traymor! He’s the one who got run over and exploded in the second one.

Shiri: Come on, Haddonfield PD. He wrote a VERY POPULAR BOOK. SEE?

Jamie: That’s a very thick book about a dude who didn’t speak in 15 years.

Shiri: The first useful thing about this movie is that brief exposition on why the police aren’t listening to Loomis. Ooooh. Huh. Okay. Laurie is the Myers baby who lived. That makes . . . a little more sense than randomly adopting the child out. For no reason.

Jamie: So, the Strodes DO fit his MO.

Shiri: Oh my god. Remember when you could just change your answering machine like that? Remember answering machines?

Jamie: Novelty answering machine messages. Classic.

Shiri: Did people still have those in 2007 though?

Jamie: Nope. Didn’t the iPhone come out in 2007?

Shiri: I think I had a pink razer.

Jamie: Watching Jamie Lloyd bone is . . . kind of wrong.

Shiri: OMHFG, please stab them.

Jamie: Yeah, Michael’s just a perv in this one. He’s just a voyeur.

Shiri: He still has his tighties on, and she still has her tights on. Wow. Those people have an entire spoon drawer!

Jamie: But “You’re so fucking warm” is totally something a teenager would say mid-sex.

Shiri: I’d probably scream like that if someone dragged my nipples across the floor too.

Jamie: Oh man, she’s gonna get all kinds of hardwood floor rug burn.

Jamie: Why are these kids even wearing costumes? They didn’t go trick or treating. They didn’t go to a party. They’re just hanging out at home.

Shiri: Maybe their parents took them trick or treating BEFORE they went out? Like . . . maybe there is actual responsible parenting in some parts of Haddonfield now? Hold up. Hold up. No one in this tiny town wondered where the FUCKING baby was? Like, they knew other people. They knew she had three kids.

Jamie: I mean, I think they all looked the other way. That family was all kinds of fucked up.

Shiri: No one was like, “What happened to the baby?”

Jamie: OK, Jamie Lloyd’s boobs are getting the most screen time. Which is kind of disturbing.

Shiri: She’s clearly proud of them.

Jamie: As well she should be. But I keep seeing 9yo Jamie.

Shiri: I feel like maybe she should have screamed for Laurie sooner? Like, way to protect your friend. How BIG is Haddonfield? I don’t feel like it’s ever taken 10 minutes to get across town before.

Jamie: It’s 2007 now. Haddonfield has experienced “sprawl.”

Shiri: Does she need the glasses or not? Because she keeps putting them on but also seems to do fine without them?

Jamie: “Get in the bathroom!” Yeah, solid plan. Ooh, I hope there’s rappelling in this one.

Shiri: Apparently, this is an homage to 4, wherein all of the sheriff’s colleagues see his daughter’s tatas.

Jamie: Cops do it by the book, Shiri. Those kids are right. Don’t open the door. Wow, there is a LOT of screaming in this one.

Shiri: Michael is the guy who was Sabretooth in X-Men. I was wondering how many actors there could be who are that tall. He’s from Saskatchewan. So he might ACTUALLY be a yeti. I think I preferred the great closet showdown of 1978.

Jamie: Um, yeah. No contest.

Shiri: Oh, COME ON.

Jamie: He just loves his sister, Shiri. Where’s your heart? He’s demasked!

Shiri: Ugh. It was so much more entertaining when he was trying to obliterate his entire family. I don’t buy this Laurie being able to come up with a plan.

Jamie: Well, it wasn’t much of a plan. It was basically just “stab him.” That was it.

Shiri: I find it fascinating that movies make it look like it’s so easy to stab someone. Like, he’s huge. He could do it. But it’s not that easy.

Jamie: There are these things called bones that get in the way.

Shiri: And like, maybe if you’re aiming you hit the sweet spot? But she went where there are collar bones and ribs and a scapula.

Jamie: Damn. Easy mistake. I mean, it was only a giant empty swimming pool. Who would have noticed that? How embarrassing.

Shiri: Please stab her so she shuts up. I cared about other Laurie.

Jamie: That is one fucking DEEP swimming pool. It’s like 20 feet deep! Nobody has that in their backyard. At least this Loomis is a good shot!

Shiri: This Loomis is a much better shot. Old Laurie never complained about getting stabbed in the leg. She went all knitting needle on that motherfucker.

Jamie: This one hasn’t shut the fuck up for the last 20 minutes. Constant screaming.

Shiri: Oh my god, please kill her. And where is he putting all of his hair? Loomis is not the noble sacrifice!

Jamie: Where’s a good wire hangar when you need one?

Shiri: BUTT FRAME.

Jamie: Loomis went the way of the dad in Season of the Witch! Eye gouging!

Shiri: Oh NOW she’s in the closet.

Jamie: I mean, they HAD to have this scene, didn’t they?

Shiri: They could have skipped the pool. I wish they had skipped the pool. Really, I wish they had just skipped the whole thing.

Jamie: I wish they had skipped half this fucking movie. This movie was totally and completely 100% unnecessary. It brought nothing new to the character or franchise except needless violence, gore, and boredom. And that’s saying something in this franchise with some truly terrible movies.

Shiri: Daredevil has this amount of violence and gore, but it’s good. For serious, this is definitely the worst. At least Resurrection was funny in retrospect.

Jamie: I’d watch the Paul Rudd one AND the Busta Rhymes one again over this one. Any day of the fucking week.

Shiri: 10/10 agree.

Jamie: I cannot believe that Laurie has kept herself from screaming for this long.

Shiri: She was screaming into her HAND Jamie. It’s not the same thing at ALL.

Jamie: Jamie Lee Curtis was a badass in every single one. This Laurie is totally helpless.

Shiri: Also, those are not the eyes of a man who has had his eyes gouged out. This one could definitely use some 200-year-old German automatons.

Jamie: For serious, though, most movies could.

Shiri: Where did he get a cricket bat?

Jamie: It was his favorite childhood cricket bat.

Shiri: Of all the things about this movie I don’t believe, someone in Haddonfield having a cricket bat may be the thing I believe least.

Jamie: It’s the one he used to bash squirrels brains in.

Shiri: A more refined weapon for a more civilized age.

Jamie: Someone’s gonna need to call a contractor after he’s done with that cricket bat.

Shiri: She could have at least electrocuted his testicles before she fell.

Jamie: Dear lord have mercy, isn’t this over yet?

Shiri: The worst part is that how we HAVE to watch the last one because we made it through this one, and I can’t leave that last one dangling. It would bother me. Spitting blood on him is definitely going to work as well as shooting him. Well played, Laurie.

Jamie: NOW we’re supposed to believe she’s a badass? Dear god with the screaming.

Shiri: That was truly awful.

Jamie: OMG, this movie was fucking awful.

Shiri: ZERO redeeming anythings.

Jamie: Fuck. Now we need to watch the sequel, don’t we?

Shiri: I do. I can’t let it lay there. We’re so close. We have to do it for the people.

Jamie: Ugh.