There’s something amazing about huge, unwieldy movie franchises. Series that go north of five or six installments have staying power, even if they abandon all pretense of having “canon,” story continuity, or logic. Each has a certain something that helps it stand out and sustain so many films over so many years.

Whatever it is, it worked. And the movie made money. And what works once is guaranteed to work seven or eight times, right? Well, maybe not, but that’s a standard Hollywood maxim in any case.

In the spirit of the season, we’re going back and taking a look at the ridiculously strong Halloween franchise. How strong? Well, it’s survived 11 movies, 40 years, 5 reboots/separate timelines, and more “dead” Michael Myerseses than you can count.

I’m joined by Shiri Sondheimer to watch all 11 films in the franchise. Neither of us has seen them before, and we watch together and comment on the film in a private Slack channel.

For the curious, our reaction to Halloween (1978) is here. What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our conversation while watching Halloween II from 1981. I’d never seen this one before, but I always had a soft spot for this movie because of the poster. I simply cannot see the pumpkin, so every time I look at it, I see a skeleton with bright orange hair in a bowl cut.

Shiri: Wow, this one has fancy Universal titles

Jamie: Moving up in the world Why two Universal title cards?

Shiri: They needed to mark their territory twice?

Jamie: Because it’s Halloween TWO, I guess.

Shiri: Still not Illinois.

Jamie: Picking RIGHT up where we left off. Laurie still isn’t any smarter.

Shiri: LAST TIME ON STUPID GIRLS WHO DON’T DOUBLETAP.

Jamie: I don’t understand why she stayed there anyway. Why didn’t she go with the kids?

Shiri: I think her leg is supposed to be broken from when she fell down the stairs? Also, how could she be saved by a man if she did the intelligent thing and left with the kids?

Jamie: How did he back out of the room ON TOP OF THE RAILING? We don’t even get to see him running away? He left one HELL of an imprint on the grass, though.

Shiri: But no blood. Oh, some blood.

Jamie: Nice, luxurious, mid-July grass.

Shiri: Rule number 1 of being a medical professional: If it’s wet and it’s not yours, don’t touch it.

Jamie: Loomis isn’t the brightest bulb. “You don’t know what death is!” But he is full of great one-liners.

Shiri: HALLOWEEN II: we paid the pumpkin carver this time.

Jamie: I like that they brought back the only two capable actors. They at least TRIED, and I give them credit for that.

Shiri: That’s probably why everyone else died.

Jamie: It’s interesting that this movie was made three years later, but they decided to have it take place immediately after the first. Zero time has passed. Laurie and Loomis look the same, but the Halloween theme is SOOO 1981 this time.

Shiri: They must have hired an actual musician too because it changed keys without like . . . skipping oddly. I can see some synthesizer dude in a booth rocking out.

Jamie: They used cassettes this time.

Shiri: The pumpkin in this opening sequence is deep. It goes to, like, Narnia.

Jamie: They paid the shit out of the carver this time. This opening sequence was about 70% of their budget.

Shiri: I mean, the first 10 minutes has been reused footage and the pumpkin, so that checks out.

Jamie: Loomis: “I SHOT HIM SIX TIMES! I SHOT HIM SIX TIMES!” IF I SAY THAT SIX TIMES, MAYBE SOMEONE WILL LISTEN TO ME.

Shiri: And then, he fell on his knife. He fell on his knife TEN TIMES.

Jamie: I’m trying to figure out what time it is. Most people are fast asleep. But there are still kids out trick or treating. And this old lady is making a sammich.

Shiri: Why does she need that giant knife to make a sandwich. Why was she screaming? Like, Michael was already outside.

Jamie: She touched blood on her baloney.

Shiri: It’s BALONEY. It’s probably made out of blood anyway.

Jamie: I adore how no one actually cares about anyone else. “Are you ok??” No answer. “Huh, ok. Never mind then.”

Shiri: “WHAT? He decided to start beating her?” And you get back on the phone with your FRIEND? Every single one of these people deserves to be knifed.

Jamie: Teenagers suddenly jumped into the 80s during a 20-minute span here since the first movie. Wild. Oh, Death 1 for this film. Death 6 overall.

Shiri: Also, those monogram letters on the wall are so 80s. Cop jackets are still solid 70s though. And the facial hair has upgraded to Magnum PI. The clinic? They’re taking her to a CLINIC?

Jamie: That paramedic dude looks like Sigourney Weaver in Alien.

Shiri: BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Jamie: I wonder if we’ll find out what happened to those two kids who ran away. The ones Laurie was babysitting.

Shiri: Michael probably ate them. No one cares. THE HOT CHICK IS SAFE. EVERYONE STAND. DOWN.

Jamie: See?? It’s Ripley! Actually, it’s more like Aliens Ripley.

Shiri: That hospital looks like a morgue.

Jamie: Did nurses ever actually wear those little hats?

Shiri: Yes. You still got them at graduation symbolically until like, 20 years ago.

Jamie: Drunk doctor. Check.

Shiri: She needs blood, and they took her to a clinic? The fuck?

Jamie: This is the hospital, I think.

Shiri: No. They do not need to put her out. Holy crap, though. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen an accurate blood draw in a movie.

Jamie: Halloween 2, bringing the medical accuracy we all need.

Shiri: I also get salty whenever they use defibrillators to restart someone’s heart.

Jamie: See? Kids still trick or treating! It must be fucking dawn by now. What time is it supposed to be? Holy crap, that came out of nowhere! Was that van filled with C4? Why did it explode?

Shiri: Okay, that was almost as good as Robocop. “Is it him?!” HOW COULD YOU TELL AT THAT POINT? He’s a ball of flame.

Jamie: Did they just kill a kid? Are we just going to ignore the person that was run over and burned alive in the middle of the street?

Shiri: Laurie and the paramedic are SO going to do it.

Jamie: Ripley, no! She’s drugged! There’s no consent!

Shiri: Why is her hand bandaged? Nothing happened to her hand.

Jamie: I can’t take that paramedic seriously.

Shiri: He needs a cat.

Jamie: I wonder if the parents will ever come home.

Shiri: They’re dead. Why rush?

Jamie: Could you imagine? You come home and you’re like, “Who are all these dead teenagers in my house??”

Shiri: Oh crap, I forgot that was his daughter. No. Nope. Been way too long for her eyes to close.

Jamie: These are the worst cops in the world. No wonder their beat is Haddonfield, IL.

Shiri: Though apparently, they don’t care who they actually killed.

Jamie: Right? That was definitely a burning kid in the street.

Shiri: Why is that cowboy beatboxing?

Jamie: No one in 1978 had a boombox like that.

Shiri: No. That shit was STRICTLY 80s.

Jamie: And carrying it on your shoulder? No way.

Shiri: It’s nice that the killer is on the loose, and they told him exactly where to find the victim. Also, where’s Laurie’s dad? Like, shouldn’t they have called him or something? Is that girl the coroner? She’s dressed like a coroner.

Jamie: Is he smoking a joint with forceps?

Shiri: Medics are weird. Those decorative pineapples seem incongruous. Especially for Illinois in October.

Jamie: Who are these people? Are we supposed to care about them? They’re just randos.

Shiri: Ripley has a part to play. He’s a college boy.

Jamie: They mostly come out at night. Mostly. Haddonfield is apparently the land of svelte nurses.

Shiri: Seriously.

Jamie: The fucking nursery is unmanned and unlocked? They just leave the babies out there?

Shiri: They used to. Now . . . we had to change our daughter’s ankle bracelet, and it was this whole huge process of warning security and you only have like, 10 seconds.

Jamie: I love that we’re about half an hour into the second movie, and Laurie is JUST NOW learning who the bad guy is.

Shiri: I like that nurse

Jamie: That nurse better live.

Shiri: That nurse will cut a bitch with a scalpel. Uh oh.

Jamie: NO! TAKE JANET!

Shiri: Please take Janet. How did we live pre-cell phones?

Jamie: It was the dark ages.

Shiri: Couldn’t reach your patient’s parents to tell them she’d been carved up by a serial killer. Did your parents have the mounted car phones?

Jamie: Heck no. Only rich people had those.

Shiri: There’s a cat in the dumpster. Of course there is.

Jamie: I thought that was a mutant rat. I don’t know why he’s surprised to see an unlocked door. This is the land of safety.

Shiri: It isn’t DC, Jamie.

Jamie: Nothing is locked.

Shiri: Because it’s the MIDWEST. Only nice people live there except undead serial killers.

Jamie: And “bad girls.”

Shiri: I mean, if it were New York, he’d have been shot by the inhabitants of the first house he tried to break into. Having gown up in the suburbs, I can categorically say, you could have sex, smoke weed, or play red rover in the park they built over the old dump.

Jamie: Death 7. Poor security guard. The ol’ hammer in the noggin trick. He was just doing his job.

Shiri: I’m glad that coroner bothered to tie that mask around his neck. Why are these people rioting and looting? Also, they should really have pitchforks.

Jamie: That cop just cocked his shotgun before walking into a crowd of citizens. Flash Gordon don’t mess around.

Shiri: I’m trying to decide if Loomis is German or “educated.”

Jamie: Why not both? So, now it’s confirmed, they ran over and burned alive the kid that Laurie had a crush on in the first movie. That sucks.

Shiri: It’s okay. She’s going to get it on with Ripley.

Jamie: What IS IT with this town? Are they going to bone in the hospital?

Shiri: RIGHT NOW? She can’t leave the newborns RIGHT NOW?

Jamie: Seems like this nurse the only person on duty in the entire hospital.

Shiri: Well, it does only have one hallway.

Jamie: What is that?That’s not blood. It’s red paint.

Shiri: I don’t understand why this blood isn’t helping? Because it’s paint, doctor.

Jamie: WTAF?!

Shiri: There was nip. She’s dead.

Jamie: Are they going to bone in the physical therapy jacuzzi?

Shiri: People in this town need to learn to service themselves.

Jamie: Also, why is there a physical therapy jacuzzi in the maternity ward?

Shiri: Apparently, also every woman in this town gets a boob job for her 18th birthday. So far, her kissing Bud is the grossest thing in either of these movies.

Jamie: Oh no, he’s going to boil them. But . . . MAN BUTT!

Shiri: I do NOT need to see Bud’s tip. Nice. Soundproof glass. Apparently they had boning in mind when they built this hospital.

Jamie: Death 8. Hardly knew ye, Bud. Ew. Sucking Michael’s thumb is now the grossest thing.

Shiri: I hate when people lick other people. Also, I hate it when my dial says “scalding.”

Jamie: Why is his hand not scalding?

Shiri: She was in boiling water up to the middle of her back and only her face scalded.

Jamie: Death 9 – and a boob job gone to waste.

Shiri: So sad.

Jamie: Her boobs were still perfect, by the way.

Shiri: I’d have thought they’d have melted. Samhain? That is 100% not how you say that word.

Jamie: Sam Hain. I went to high school with him.

Shiri: lol. Why would the governor care about a rogue psychiatrist?

Jamie: Because he knows he’s terrible with little kids. Oh no. Ripley is next, I fear.

Shiri: She has no pulse but sure, let’s worry about her pupils.

Jamie: I guess the doctor was killed off screen? Huh. Death 10. Oh no, cute coroner/nurse. Death 11.

Shiri: I’m impressed he found a needle strong enough to penetrate a skull. Also, I”m glad they have lit jack o’ lanterns near rooms with oxygen.

Jamie: That’s totally a different Michael Myers mask from the first movie. Did he stop somewhere and steal a new one? I still don’t know what it’s supposed to be. Laurie was just totally nonresponsive. How is she walking through the hospital now?

Shiri: I . . .

Jamie: I have a feeling this won’t be the last time we’re left speechless. I thought the hospital phones were dead. Who’s she calling?

Shiri: Her gown is staying conveniently closed, so apparently, anything is possible?

Jamie: Do we still not know why Michael is so obsessed with Laurie?

Shiri: I was just about to ask you that. Is that a sheriff or a park ranger?

Jamie: God. Those guys are so dumb. “Where should we look?” “I have no idea.” How about the hospital with the one survivor?

Shiri: Yes. Only nurse left on premises should definitely go on a mission.

Jamie: If Ripley doesn’t protect Laurie by shouting “GET AWAY FROM HER YOU BITCH!” I riot.

Shiri: I’m glad they denoted which room was for MAJOR surgery. That is VERY important. Aw MAN! Mrs. Alves! She’s the only one I wanted to live. And that’s still not blood.

Jamie: Fuck. Mrs. Alves. Death 12.

Shiri: “Doctor, I know how this woman died. She has paint in her veins.”

Jamie: HAHAHAAHHAHAA

Shiri: OMHFG

Jamie: BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAA

Shiri: Fucking doofus.

Jamie: He just fucking slipped in her blood and died? That’s goddamn hilarious.

Shiri: I don’t think he died. I think he just knocked himself out.

Jamie: Still.

Shiri: But it’s still hilarious. It’s a good thing the killer is the only semi-intelligent person.

Jamie: Seriously. He’s a walking zombie, and he’s the ONLY one who’s halfway smart.

Shiri: I mean . . . did they accidentally give Laurie heroin or something. She’s totally out of it.

Jamie: Michael just picked that woman up two feet off the ground with a scalpel.

Shiri: Okay, I’m calling shenanigans on that scalpel.

Jamie: Death 13. And the fast music kicks in. We must be nearing the end.

Shiri: She would totally have survived that stab too, even if he got her right in the spinal column. Also, they turned on the red lights. Roooooooxanne. Carpenter is big on girls’ butts framed by windowsills apparently.

Jamie: Aren’t we all?

Shiri: Is she . . . is she waiting for the elevator?

Jamie: Is that the same scalpel? Because it’s totally clean.

Shiri: Well, we’ve established that he’s a fastidious killer.

Jamie: Elevators in 1981 didn’t open if something got in the way of the doors? Convenient. And now she’s cowering on the floor of a car. Again, she hides somewhere she can’t get out of.

Shiri: HOW CONVENIENT LOOMIS IS ALSO AN ANTHROPOLOGIST.

Jamie: He’s just well read. And there it is. Laurie is Michael’s sister.

Shiri: Wow. It took TWO movies for us to find that out. Long game. So . . . the older sister was boning the boyfriend while he was supposed to be watching the baby?

Jamie: Apparently, Carpenter HATED that.

Shiri: The sister thing? I mean, random is scarier.

Jamie: Being the sister was never his original plan. Ugh, the ONE TIME someone closes the doors. Oh the irony.

Shiri: And LOCKS them.

Jamie: Wow, it really sucks to be Laurie. Um, he just walked through that glass door all casual-like.

Shiri: I feel like her pounding on it would have broken it if it were that easy to break.

Jamie: DOUBLETAP HIM!!!

Shiri: Now THAT’S how you use a scalpel to kill someone.

Jamie: DEATH….14? Man, I dunno. I’ve lost count.

Shiri: I’m still not sure if Ripley is dead or just an idiot. If he is, it’s 15.

Jamie: Oh, he’s definitely an idiot. Can we really credit Michael with that one, though?

Shiri: I mean, technically if he hadn’t bled Mrs. Alves out, he wouldn’t have slipped.

Jamie: OK, I’m with you. 15 if he’s dead.

Shiri: Wait, where did he get another gun?

Jamie: Good question. LOOMIS!!!

Shiri: 10/10 that would not kill you.

Jamie: Especially not that fast. But 16 nonetheless.

Shiri: THERE YOU GO!

Jamie: Oh come on.

Shiri: Oh. Loomis isn’t dead. He’s just a wuss.

Jamie: Everyone else dies from one measly stab wound. Michael gets shot twice in the face and is still swinging.

Shiri: I’m confused. Is he some sort of supernatural being? I thought he was just a psycho.

Jamie: He is. This movie is where the story goes off the rails. Dude, Loomis blew up the hospital. WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES??

Shiri: See, this is why, when one of the patients kept trying to smoke while he was in ICU, we kept taking his lighters away. No one cares about children in this town. I feel that’s well established at this point. You let us down, Flash Gordon. Wait. Point of order. Where were all the MOMS?

Jamie: Dancing. They hired all the babysitters. Oh, you mean the new moms?

Shiri: Yeah.

Jamie: Yeah, that’s a good question.

Shiri: Like, sure, back in the day, they used to keep the babies in the nursery, but the moms didn’t usually LEAVE THE BUILDING. I guess Ripley did bite it.

Jamie: And “Mr. Sandman” brings us to the credits. I kind of love that Michael is just credited as The Shape in the credits.

Shiri: Wow, they had STUNTS for this one. These movies are amazing.

Jamie: OK, this one wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It had its own internal logic, and it very much followed the first one. But you hit the nail on the head. In the original, Michael Myers was just a psycho. From here on, he’s like this supernatural unkillable monster.

Shiri: Huh. This is what happens when you hand off your franchise, I guess.

Jamie: But Carpenter cowrote this one. I have a feeling there’s a whole backstory here we don’t know about.

Shiri: This is the most glorious hate watch I’ve EVER done.